Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by helloeeze »

darkstarrising wrote:I posted earlier about what I thought about 3R, but I wanted to share some additional thoughts on the subject.

I've had a couple of days to think about this....my first reaction was disappointment.....after all the hype (and undoubtedly anticipation on my part), it just wasn't what I was expecting.

In trying to understand my disappointment, I compared ML to 3R, not in terms of the show content, they're totally different. Rather, why did ML hook me from the first minute and 3 R didn't.

Think of how ML started - the fantasy interview with the vampire, Mick, his voice over telling you that's how he'd want his life to be, then the scene cuts to a less than glamorous reality of what his existence is really like. In just the first few minutes of the show, you knew an awful lot about Mick St. John and you sympathized with him In one hour of 3R, you knew very little of Andy Yablonsky, save for that very awkward statement made by the African patient about Dr. Andy's academic credentials. That could have been a great scene, but it was diminished by that little bit.

3R is more of an ensemble cast interacting among themselves and their patients.....while the interaction among the doctors and hospital staff was good for the most part, there was just too much going on....you get only bits and pieces of each of the main characters in the hour, and when a show is trying to establish their characters, that's just not enough....what would have worked a little better is if the first episode spent more time introducing us to the main characters, then over time bring more of the patient dimension into the mix. Right now, with the exception of Kate Moennig's character, who did have some background provided, we don't really know much about the characters, so we can't sympathize with them.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now. I'll keep watching, for now, hoping that at some point I'll know something about the characters who work the magic at Three Rivers.
I think everyone agrees we didn't get character development in TR the first epi. Moonlight was rare in that we got into the minds of the characters very quickly via VOs and subtle looks. It was all about relationship with a plot thrown in. The shows that can do this are the ones I like. NCIS is really rockin this season and last because the character development is stupendously good, all the characters have their own personalties and quirks. The "crime of the week" or "illness of the week" should be something to bring the characters together so they can show us who they are.

That comment about Dr. Andy being flattered by the Ethiopian patient spouting out Andy's eduation did not ring true to me and seemed like a way to instruct the audience again on who Andy is. I would rather know what Andy is feeling, frankly, than his education. I don't think a doctor would say "I'm flattered," or whatever Andy said. I meet doctors a lot in my line of work and we discuss their education. They are pretty matter of fact about it. My two cents only. I hope the writing improves and we get some smart scripts and dialogue.
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by NocturneInCMoll »

What I'm wondering--and granted, I haven't seen the show other than the first three minutes, so I'm basing this question on what I've read--is why one of the busiest, preeminent transplant hospitals in the U.S. hired an inexperienced transplant coordinator? Sure, it probably makes for better drama, but it seems :dunce: to me.
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by Lilly »

We're missing some of the background with this episode, but it seems to me I'd heard he was supposed to be an assistant to the transplant coordinator. Then, for whatever reason, he had to fill in when something happened to the head guy. Does anyone else remember this?
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by lunalux »

helloeeze wrote:
darkstarrising wrote:I posted earlier about what I thought about 3R, but I wanted to share some additional thoughts on the subject.

I've had a couple of days to think about this....my first reaction was disappointment.....after all the hype (and undoubtedly anticipation on my part), it just wasn't what I was expecting.

In trying to understand my disappointment, I compared ML to 3R, not in terms of the show content, they're totally different. Rather, why did ML hook me from the first minute and 3 R didn't.

Think of how ML started - the fantasy interview with the vampire, Mick, his voice over telling you that's how he'd want his life to be, then the scene cuts to a less than glamorous reality of what his existence is really like. In just the first few minutes of the show, you knew an awful lot about Mick St. John and you sympathized with him In one hour of 3R, you knew very little of Andy Yablonsky, save for that very awkward statement made by the African patient about Dr. Andy's academic credentials. That could have been a great scene, but it was diminished by that little bit.

3R is more of an ensemble cast interacting among themselves and their patients.....while the interaction among the doctors and hospital staff was good for the most part, there was just too much going on....you get only bits and pieces of each of the main characters in the hour, and when a show is trying to establish their characters, that's just not enough....what would have worked a little better is if the first episode spent more time introducing us to the main characters, then over time bring more of the patient dimension into the mix. Right now, with the exception of Kate Moennig's character, who did have some background provided, we don't really know much about the characters, so we can't sympathize with them.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now. I'll keep watching, for now, hoping that at some point I'll know something about the characters who work the magic at Three Rivers.
I think everyone agrees we didn't get character development in TR the first epi. Moonlight was rare in that we got into the minds of the characters very quickly via VOs and subtle looks. It was all about relationship with a plot thrown in. The shows that can do this are the ones I like. NCIS is really rockin this season and last because the character development is stupendously good, all the characters have their own personalties and quirks. The "crime of the week" or "illness of the week" should be something to bring the characters together so they can show us who they are.

That comment about Dr. Andy being flattered by the Ethiopian patient spouting out Andy's eduation did not ring true to me and seemed like a way to instruct the audience again on who Andy is. I would rather know what Andy is feeling, frankly, than his education. I don't think a doctor would say "I'm flattered," or whatever Andy said. I meet doctors a lot in my line of work and we discuss their education. They are pretty matter of fact about it. My two cents only. I hope the writing improves and we get some smart scripts and dialogue.
I don't necessarily feel like I can/should offer an opinion about 3Rs because frankly I didn't watch more than the opening. The reasons why I guess are complicated...I thought I would watch it after a few days, but reading through press and people's comments, I've decided not to - for now - not wanting to see Alex in something that is less than special, not getting Andy's "Mick" moments and voice jumbled in my head with my own vision of Mick....but I will say that DSR is right. For me, the opening of the show was very weak. Having seen it, I offer this. We're in Cleveland, the construction guy falls, we're somewhere else, a kid is throwing up blood. We're in Pittsburgh, in a room where two people are talking about liver regeneration, we're in a hallway with some other people -- more talking, Andy doesn't have the right time for a meeting -- more talk between Andy and a woman doctor, almost inaudible, about hating computers... and then what? we're in the emergency room...a guy has blue paint on his face and? where exactly is this going?

*luna can never find the damn tomato smiley when she needs it * so :hyper2:

I guess being in three locations and having to caption each for the audience could be intended to establish the three points of view but really, was that the best alternative? Not exactly subtle. Maybe it was because this was supposed to be episode #2 that it seemed so disjointed. I would have preferred an opening with Alex...maybe with the other doctors...in the 10 o'clock meeting talking (if that's what they should be doing) about something compelling...I don't know...something...that would want me to still be there after commercial break. I'm hoping that this is a wakeup call, and that the writing / dialogue get better quickly for the cast's sake.

And Nocturne -- exactly...
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by Fleur de Lisa »

Lilly wrote:We're missing some of the background with this episode, but it seems to me I'd heard he was supposed to be an assistant to the transplant coordinator. Then, for whatever reason, he had to fill in when something happened to the head guy. Does anyone else remember this?

I recall him stressing "assistant" to the donut ordering doctor dude (forgive me for not remembering his name)

My mom is visiting--she watched 3R on Sunday and had a very lukewarm reception to it. However: Lilly---showed her the avi you created for me here, and there was NOTHING lukewarm about her reaction to that!!
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by one.zebra »

Cross Posted:

Well, I told MLC (MickLifeCrisis) I wasn't going to do this...

I hit a wall Monday morning....the first in two years on these boards....

I was gong to write a note and leave the boards...but instead of doing that, I waited a day....(always a good idea for me)...

I decided to just skip the ratings and comments threads..

I loved 3R with all it's flaws....I'll watch it as long as it's on.....I can't wrap my head around not supporting (by watching the show) the guy who brought Mick St. John to life.
(No, that doesn't mean I'm going to watch Feed...I didn't know Alex back then, so I'm off the hook, lol.)

Until the TV industry climbs out of the Dark Ages and finds an accurate way to count viewers, we're going to continue to have these kinds of problems.

I did Arbitron ratings for a year..I loved it and was sorry when they were done in my area. I watched and listened to TV and radio as much as I could, a lot of different programs because I KNEW my voice was being heard. They told me I was one of their best surveyers.



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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by Emerald »

one.zebra wrote: I was gong to write a note and leave the boards...
*clings* NOOOOOO, You can't leave...I forbid it! :no:

:hug:

And I seriously do encourage anyone who is unsure about Three Rivers to give it a proper go. I rewatched the first episode today, and you can see the promise. Even with Alex's performance...yes it's off in parts, but you can see the potential for him to just completely rock the character. Apparently there's going to be some good character development stuff coming up with Dr Andy as well. Stuff to do with a past that he's escaping from. I really think this show just needs time to find its feet. I wasn't thrilled with the first episode, but I'm definitely going to give it a chance. :thumbs:
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by allegrita »

So Fleur, what you're saying is, you're taking your mom to see BUP? :laugh:

I think the opening 10 minutes of TR were by far the weakest, and most poorly edited, part of the episode. I wonder if that's because they threw some stuff in there after they decided to make that the first episode...? That being said, I think it's awfully precipitate to declare a series terrible after one episode. (No tomatoes, though..we're all entitled to think what we think.)

If the network gives it a chance, I'll keep watching. I want to find out about these people. I agree--we don't know a thing about any of 'em except for Miranda. Aren't you curious? Don't you want to see what kind of people they are?

Do any of you remember the first few episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation? Oh lord, they were LAME!!! I was giggling half the time and groaning the other half. But I could see that it had something under all the crap. And so does Three Rivers...I hope. :fingerscrossed:
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by eris »

Wow, after reading this, I'm kind of glad I missed it. It's too bad - I was happy that not only Alex got a new show so quick, but Alfre Woodard did, too. She was in My Own Worst Enemy until it got canceled.

(I thought that the two of them in a show together was a bit coincidental - for me anyway. Some of you know that I dabble at writing screenplays, and in one of them, the two actors I envisioned as filling the roles are Alex and Alfre. I wouldn't have expected that combination anywhere else.)
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by NocturneInCMoll »

Fleur de Lisa wrote:
Lilly wrote:We're missing some of the background with this episode, but it seems to me I'd heard he was supposed to be an assistant to the transplant coordinator. Then, for whatever reason, he had to fill in when something happened to the head guy. Does anyone else remember this?
I recall him stressing "assistant" to the donut ordering doctor dude (forgive me for not remembering his name)
Okay, that's fair enough then. ;)
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by allegrita »

I've been thinking about Alex's portrayal of Andy Y., and why it didn't seem to "work" completely. Many people have mentioned that he doesn't seem to be "inhabiting" the role the way he inhabits most of his other roles. Lunalux and I were talking this evening and we decided that it's because he's trying to capture what Andy does, and not who Andy is. I think he's been spending so much time trying to be a cardiothoracic surgeon, learning the lingo and wearing the mask and trying to fill Dr. Gonzo's huge shoes, he's been neglecting what kind of person Andy is. But the person is who we are going to be interested in, and compelled by. Andy is not the sum of his talents, he's a gestalt. Alex needs to get in touch with what makes Andy tick, and stop being intimidated by trying to be the best fake doctor on TV. Mind you, he wasn't helped by the script in episode 1. I felt like he needed a hook to hang Andy on, and they didn't provide it for him. So... I'm hoping that they'll give him that hook to hang his character on. And give hooks to the other characters, too.
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by helloeeze »

allegrita wrote:I've been thinking about Alex's portrayal of Andy Y., and why it didn't seem to "work" completely. Many people have mentioned that he doesn't seem to be "inhabiting" the role the way he inhabits most of his other roles. Lunalux and I were talking this evening and we decided that it's because he's trying to capture what Andy does, and not who Andy is. I think he's been spending so much time trying to be a cardiothoracic surgeon, learning the lingo and wearing the mask and trying to fill Dr. Gonzo's huge shoes, he's been neglecting what kind of person Andy is. But the person is who we are going to be interested in, and compelled by. Andy is not the sum of his talents, he's a gestalt. Alex needs to get in touch with what makes Andy tick, and stop being intimidated by trying to be the best fake doctor on TV. Mind you, he wasn't helped by the script in episode 1. I felt like he needed a hook to hang Andy on, and they didn't provide it for him. So... I'm hoping that they'll give him that hook to hang his character on. And give hooks to the other characters, too.
I agree and I'm not sure Alex was given any dialogue that we could see what kind of person Andy is. His dialogue was either hypertechnical or verging on maudlin in a couple scenes. When Alex was at the electronic magic board diagnosing the patient that whole scene seemed very fake and overtechnical, terms pronounced too succinctly. My two cents.

Sorry I don't mean to upset anyone by critiquing the show. I think it has a lot of potential with much better, less preachy scripts.

It's funny because in Alex' critique of Moonlight episodes he said that epi 1 was somewhat compartmentalized because of introducing characters and the vampire rules. Well, I think TR suffered the same thing. Sometimes when you try to introduce so much in one episode you can't do any of it well.
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by MoonMad »

Lilly wrote:We're missing some of the background with this episode, but it seems to me I'd heard he was supposed to be an assistant to the transplant coordinator. Then, for whatever reason, he had to fill in when something happened to the head guy. Does anyone else remember this?
If I remember correctly, in the original pilot he was hired as the assistant with no medical background whatsoever, and then had to unexpectedly fill the shoes of the co-ordinator who left suddenly. The next episode has been re-named "Ryan's First Day" so I imagine they are going to incorporate his first scenes in the form of flashback to explain how he was thrown into the deep end, but I could be wrong about that.

On the issue of why they didn't introduce the main characters in such a way that the audience connected with them in a meaningful way, I think it was because they were trying to treat the subject matter as the star of the show rather than the doctors, at least in the first show. We can expect to see some deeper characterisation as the show goes along, but this was always touted as a medical show in a three-pronged way, with the doctors being only one prong. For it's first outing, I think they wanted to establish the importance of what these exceptionally clever doctors are doing. They want to treat the subject with the reverence they think it deserves.

Because we are all Moonlight fans where the characters were the stars and the plots were only devices used to advance their stories, I think many of us are finding it hard to make the adjustment. Some of us are more accepting of this type of storytelling than others, and some just aren't interested in stories of the week with the main characters taking a backseat to the action.

Unfortunately there's nothing that can be done about that. This is the type of show Alex has chosen to do, but I'm hoping there's enough personal story included in the show to keep most viewers happily engaged each week, but it's never going to be as character-driven as ML was, unless they drastically change their outlook (which seems unlikely on CBS).

Personally, I really enjoyed it and am looking forward to seeing it again.
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by starbucksjunkie »

helloeeze wrote:
allegrita wrote:I've been thinking about Alex's portrayal of Andy Y., and why it didn't seem to "work" completely. Many people have mentioned that he doesn't seem to be "inhabiting" the role the way he inhabits most of his other roles. Lunalux and I were talking this evening and we decided that it's because he's trying to capture what Andy does, and not who Andy is. I think he's been spending so much time trying to be a cardiothoracic surgeon, learning the lingo and wearing the mask and trying to fill Dr. Gonzo's huge shoes, he's been neglecting what kind of person Andy is. But the person is who we are going to be interested in, and compelled by. Andy is not the sum of his talents, he's a gestalt. Alex needs to get in touch with what makes Andy tick, and stop being intimidated by trying to be the best fake doctor on TV. Mind you, he wasn't helped by the script in episode 1. I felt like he needed a hook to hang Andy on, and they didn't provide it for him. So... I'm hoping that they'll give him that hook to hang his character on. And give hooks to the other characters, too.
I agree and I'm not sure Alex was given any dialogue that we could see what kind of person Andy is. His dialogue was either hypertechnical or verging on maudlin in a couple scenes. When Alex was at the electronic magic board diagnosing the patient that whole scene seemed very fake and overtechnical, terms pronounced too succinctly. My two cents.

Sorry I don't mean to upset anyone by critiquing the show. I think it has a lot of potential with much better, less preachy scripts.

It's funny because in Alex' critique of Moonlight episodes he said that epi 1 was somewhat compartmentalized because of introducing characters and the vampire rules. Well, I think TR suffered the same thing. Sometimes when you try to introduce so much in one episode you can't do any of it well.


Allegrita, you're exactly right. I felt Alex was trying to suppress any sort of personality there, with the exception of the discussion of the African man's lack of insurance ("Love you . . .") And he was not helped by his dialogue at all.

Heloeeze, you are right, too. I was struck by how bad some of the dialogue was. And I'm not casting stones here; I'm going to watch, because Alex is in it and I want to figure out why it's not working. Yet.

The show needs something more compelling than "lives are being saved every day" to make people tune in. That something is character development. And great dialogue. That is what made ER special.

And everybody overacted, including Alex. That is to be expected. They will get a feel for their characters as they go along. Unfortunately, I don't think shows these days are given as long to "gel" as they used to. And I would love to know why they shelved the first episode or decided to premiere a different one, whatever.
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Re: Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 8 **SPOILERS**

Post by Josefismysire »

allegrita wrote:I've been thinking about Alex's portrayal of Andy Y., and why it didn't seem to "work" completely. Many people have mentioned that he doesn't seem to be "inhabiting" the role the way he inhabits most of his other roles. Lunalux and I were talking this evening and we decided that it's because he's trying to capture what Andy does, and not who Andy is. I think he's been spending so much time trying to be a cardiothoracic surgeon, learning the lingo and wearing the mask and trying to fill Dr. Gonzo's huge shoes, he's been neglecting what kind of person Andy is. But the person is who we are going to be interested in, and compelled by. Andy is not the sum of his talents, he's a gestalt. Alex needs to get in touch with what makes Andy tick, and stop being intimidated by trying to be the best fake doctor on TV. Mind you, he wasn't helped by the script in episode 1. I felt like he needed a hook to hang Andy on, and they didn't provide it for him. So... I'm hoping that they'll give him that hook to hang his character on. And give hooks to the other characters, too.
Alle..very well said. I think you hit the nail right on the head. Maybe all of Alex's "hero worship" of Dr. Gonzo has gotten in the way..he is trying so hard to BE Dr. Gonzo..to make him proud..that he hasn't created Dr. Andy. It must be difficult to pattern your fictional character after a real-life person and then do it justice..does that make sense?
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