The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

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redwinter101
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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by redwinter101 »

Lisa, sweetie. :comfort: :heart: :comfort: I absolutely think that, "Why does he go on?" is the right question. I've always felt that suicide, ultimately, was beyond Mick. No matter how much he might long for death, as here, I think taking that definitive action to end his own life is just something he couldn't do. Call it upbringing, call it belief, call it instinct, I don't know, but that's how I see it. I do think that without someone like Josef, though, in this situation, he would just fade away from neglect. Josef knows it too, hence his decision that something has to be done to shock Mick out of his spiral of grief. Because Josef can't face losing Mick and this story is just as much about him, as you say, as it is about Mick.

Josef knows there are no answers - there is only existence, persistence. He's had 400 years to learn that and now he is Mick's teacher.

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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by Fleur de Lisa »

I agree, red. I can't see Mick committing suicide, but slowly letting himself go--that is Mick all the way. Suicide would be too quick for him, notwithstanding his beliefs, etc. I see him neglecting himself, as you have mentioned, and drawing out the pain of dying.

And Josef's existence is one built on persistence. Perhaps a lesson Mick will learn when he is centuries old. Though, given his personality, even 400 years of undead living may not affect him as it has Josef.
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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by Catmoon »

Heartbreakingly sad, very powerful. :clapping: :thanks:
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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by redwinter101 »

It is intriguing to think of Mick as being so "young" in Josef's eyes. It's amazing that the writers didn't have Josef as a father-figure, but established them as being on an equal footing, sometimes one taking charge, sometimes the other. It certainly would have been a very different story if they had stuck with the original casting for Josef as I don't think they would have been able to avoid the father-figure routine.

Josef on the other hand, I could see killing himself, in the "right" circumstances. So much more decisive than Mick, in so many ways. BUT, I struggle to think of anything that would put him in the situation where he would feel the need to make that decision.

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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by redwinter101 »

Catmoon wrote:Heartbreakingly sad, very powerful. :clapping: :thanks:
Sorry, Cat, I posted across you.

Thanks so much for the read and the lovely comment. :rose:

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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by Fleur de Lisa »

redwinter101 wrote:It is intriguing to think of Mick as being so "young" in Josef's eyes. It's amazing that the writers didn't have Josef as a father-figure, but established them as being on an equal footing, sometimes one taking charge, sometimes the other. It certainly would have been a very different story if they had stuck with the original casting for Josef as I don't think they would have been able to avoid the father-figure routine.

Josef on the other hand, I could see killing himself, in the "right" circumstances. So much more decisive than Mick, in so many ways. BUT, I struggle to think of anything that would put him in the situation where he would feel the need to make that decision.


Red
Nodding in agreement. Mick and Josef were not on equal footing in so many ways--about the only thing they had in common was vampirism, and the friendship that evolved because of it. However, it's interesting to ponder what qualities they may have shared as the years rolled by. Does Mick accept his inner vamp more ala Josef? Does Josef become more aware of his past humanity? I think we were beginning to see glimpses of those things in the last few episodes.

And Josef--definitely I could see himself calculatingly offing himself--but again, what would have to happen to possess him to take such an extreme measure?

Darn you for making me use my brain so much this early Monday morning! :hearts:
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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by redwinter101 »

Fleur de Lisa wrote:Darn you for making me use my brain so much this early Monday morning! :hearts:
:giggle:

My work is done....

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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by Lucy »

With the exception of Mick's statement "400 years" I had figured Beth had attained a ripe old age and died in the future. When I got to that line I realized something untoward had occured and to me that was the source of Mick's pain.

Ah...to love them is to watch them die. Simone was right.

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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by wpgrace »

I think the equality between Mick and Josef, despite Josef's age, is what makes the friendship work. Sometimes Josef's age inserts itself, but his love for Mick negates it most of the time... makes him as vulnerable AS Mick, cause love does make us vulnerable... which puts them on an equal footing. I like that they made Josef young looking, and buds rather than a mentor, after all.... I think that's why the relationship is so intriguing. I hope you'll write more MJ, Red... I enjoy them and you do them so well.

Cat wrote a lovely fic about Beth's death, and Josef talking Mick off the ledge as well... One More Day is, I believe the name of it... As in this piece, you see their co-dependence... the vampires need one another most in all the world... if you haven't read that one, it is a really good one to read in comparison to this... they are beautiful together, these two fics... different fics and different authors, two looks at a similar situation... but they mesh on a really cool level actually.

And while I do find this story sad, unexpected or premature death... or any death of a loved one... is always sad... I don't see Mick killing himself. And NOT trying to argue, cause I get the perspective that he would just fade away. But I don't think he would do that either. I think he'd eventually rally in some way, but he'd remain a shell. Without Josef and his intervention, he'd not recover to ever really enjoy anything... he'd change. He'll change now too, but I mean, I think he'd change even more and for the worse without his friend... any of us would.

But we survive these deaths, most of us do, most of the time. I think Mick would too. But it's so much better he has Josef... he'll survive better with his help... survive to thrive again some day... and it helps Josef survive too... that is so the miracle of their lives together.
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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by coco »

wpgrace wrote:I think the equality between Mick and Josef, despite Josef's age, is what makes the friendship work. Sometimes Josef's age inserts itself, but his love for Mick negates it most of the time... makes him as vulnerable AS Mick, cause love does make us vulnerable... which puts them on an equal footing. I like that they made Josef young looking, and buds rather than a mentor, after all.... I think that's why the relationship is so intriguing. I hope you'll write more MJ, Red... I enjoy them and you do them so well.

Cat wrote a lovely fic about Beth's death, and Josef talking Mick off the ledge as well... One More Day is, I believe the name of it... As in this piece, you see their co-dependence... the vampires need one another most in all the world... if you haven't read that one, it is a really good one to read in comparison to this... they are beautiful together, these two fics... different fics and different authors, two looks at a similar situation... but they mesh on a really cool level actually.

And while I do find this story sad, unexpected or premature death... or any death of a loved one... is always sad... I don't see Mick killing himself. And NOT trying to argue, cause I get the perspective that he would just fade away. But I don't think he would do that either. I think he'd eventually rally in some way, but he'd remain a shell. Without Josef and his intervention, he'd not recover to ever really enjoy anything... he'd change. He'll change now too, but I mean, I think he'd change even more and for the worse without his friend... any of us would.

But we survive these deaths, most of us do, most of the time. I think Mick would too. But it's so much better he has Josef... he'll survive better with his help... survive to thrive again some day... and it helps Josef survive too... that is so the miracle of their lives together.
This is what drew me to this story most. Mick will survive this, as heartbreaking as it is and he will survive it all the better because he has Josef. Both of them will have other experiences and heartbreaks in their lives that will change them but with each others help, they would both survive them and go on. I believe that the only loss they wouldn't survive from is if one lost the other.
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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by wpgrace »

That is an interesting point to ponder, coco... we saw him THINK he had lost Josef on the show... would he survive had it really been true?

I'll bet Josef has lost someone very close, more than once... and I don't mean just humans... interesting to ponder...

Oh! ANd hi Red... sorry... :wave:
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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by wollstonecraft61 »

Oh, Red, another gem to add to my cache of metaphors: Tears of dew. That is so apropos. The dew represents the tears Mick is fighting with all of his being. Maybe he will see that like dew, his tears are fertile to the memory of his love for Beth. But haven't we all felt at least once that wrenching, soul-hollowing grief of something dearly loved lost? I would say beautiful, but how can such pain be beautiful? Somehow with you, Red, it just is.
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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by redwinter101 »

Lucy, in my mind, Beth's death was sudden and unexpected. I originally had a line about an accident but I took it out as I think the story works whatever the timeline - unless they had lived a long and happy life together, and she simply died of old age. I think it is the shock here that is what has really knocked Mick sideways. He thought he had more time - but he was wrong.

Grace and coco, maaaaaan I do love it when you two get to chattering. And I agree with you both - Mick and Josef survive better with, and because of, each other. As for Mick surviving, but changed, Grace, I'll use a line I wrote in another fic: "We are what happens to us." Yes, Mick would probably survive - but he would be changed, as we all are, by experience, loss, grief, just plain old life.

Now I must pop off to read Cat's fic - thanks for the pointer.

Woll, Mick was always presented as a character who felt things deeply - and he had put so much of his hope in Beth that I think the loss of her would just be devastating. Utterly devastating.

And this,
wollstonecraft61 wrote: I would say beautiful, but how can such pain be beautiful? Somehow with you, Red, it just is.
is so very lovely. Thank you. :rose:

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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by one.zebra »

Oh Red...this is gaspingly beautiful. The deep relationship between Mick and Josef..the heartbreaking sadness that it's too late to Turn Beth now...
...exquisitly done..how is it you are not published?!?

/throws flowers/

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Re: The End of Dreams (one-shot, M, J, darkfic, PG-13)

Post by redwinter101 »

*ducks flying flowers, manages to catch some in my teeth*

Thanks so much, Mary - that's such a lovely comment. I am just fascinated by Mick and Josef's relationship; so many layers - so much love, dependency, true friendship.

As for not being published, well, you are very kind. Keep your fingers crossed for me, k?

Love to you, as always,

Red :heart:
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