Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 9: Fleur de Lis

Post Reply
User avatar
librarian_7
Forever Moonlightaholic
Posts: 23481
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:21 pm
Location: wherever Josef is
Contact:

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by librarian_7 »

One other thing I've wondered...I can accept that Beth did not think she could kill Coraline by staking her. Okay, so she has a paralyzed vamp on her hands. What was she thinking would happen next?

Lucky
User avatar
PNWgal
Moonlightaholic Mod
Posts: 14732
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:40 pm
Location: Stuck in the middle between Mick and Josef

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by PNWgal »

redwinter101 wrote:Beth was kidnapped and traumatised as a child. That seems like explanation enough of why, after finally unblocking the memories of what happened to her, she reacted with such violent force. I don't understand why so determined to make her cold and calculating in this scenario - this was revenge for what happened to her surely? Yes, it was years after the event but in close proximity to the re-emergence of the woman who kidnapped her. I think this counts as a lot more than having her feelings hurt.

Red
Agreed. Beth had repressed her memories of being kidnapped for so long, when they DID finally start coming to light, I think it's a perfectly natural response to try to hurt the woman that had inflicted the trauma. And - Beth truly believed Morgan was Coraline, ergo, that Morgan/Coraline was a vampire.

Fuel all that with with a dose of confusion, a bit of jealousy and some incredulousness (is that a word?) and it all boils into a stake in the heart.
Image

Banner by the talented GuardianAngel


"It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - George Eliot

"The dogs may bark, but the caravan passes on." - old Arab proverb

"Do the best you can do. Love many. Trust few." - Jack Ingram
User avatar
coco
Cleaner
Posts: 6983
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:17 pm
Location: In my own little corner of Moonlight heaven :)
Contact:

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by coco »

While I don't think the staking was Beth's finest moment, I can sort of see why she would go to that extreme. We've noted from earlier episodes that Beth is still haunted by what happened to her as a child and she is now finally putting the pieces together and has come face to face with the woman who kidnapped her. Plus, Beth had befriended Morgan so feels decieved all over again when she discovers the truth of who Morgan is. Beth is a little out of it here and has been pushed to the limit mentally so she reacts to all the built up feelings with violence. I truly believe she thought she was dealing with a vamp and that staking her wouldn't have killed or injured her to the extreme it did.
coco's Fan Vids/coco's Graphic Art
Image
Avi by TugaFanatic & banner by me. Thank you.

"Maybe it was her blood in my veins that let me feel her. The beating of her very living heart. Or maybe, we've always been connected." Mick & Beth - Moonlight


coco's YT channel
coco's Vimeo channel
100% Moonlight Tumblr
:twothumbs:
User avatar
GuardianAngel
Courtesan
Posts: 2455
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:50 pm
Location: Right here. I think.

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by GuardianAngel »

I have some thoughts on the stabbing too. But lets wait until we get there to dicuss it, shall we?


What are your thoughts on Josef's knowledge of Coraline? Do you think there IS a reason other than wrong place, wrong time as to Beth being chosen? And if so, does Josef know what it is? And is he hiding it from Beth? Or from Mick?
Image
User avatar
nutmegger911
Cleaner
Posts: 6233
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Right here - right now

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by nutmegger911 »

GuardianAngel wrote:I have some thoughts on the stabbing too. But lets wait until we get there to dicuss it, shall we?


What are your thoughts on Josef's knowledge of Coraline?

What Josef knows about her? In a word, volumes.

Do you think there IS a reason other than wrong place, wrong time as to Beth being chosen?

Don't know the answer to this.

And if so, does Josef know what it is? If so, most likely.

And is he hiding it from Beth? If so, definitely. Or from Mick? Ditto.
NM911
Image
LIVE WIDE
It ain't canon until they've shot it (and aired it) - I said that.
Trust the Muse. - Catmoon
The system isn't broken, it's fixed. - Billo
User avatar
allegrita
Moonlightaholic Admin
Posts: 45960
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:22 am
Location: Snuggled under the brown afghan, watching the fire

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by allegrita »

I think Coraline picked Beth because she had the "right" blood type. I have no idea where the writers were going with that, but I believe there was definitely a reason. This isn't the place to talk about fanfic speculation, but there's plenty of food for thought there...

Did Josef know? I believe that he knew a lot more than he let on. I'd be willing to assume that if there was a reason for Beth to be chosen, Josef knows what it was. And I believe he's definitely holding his cards close to the vest on this. He knows a lot more than he's telling Mick OR Beth. I'm torn as to whether or not he knew Coraline was alive...some days I think he did, and some days I think he really was surprised. That Josef... he's a hard vamp to read. :laugh:
Image
User avatar
wpgrace
100% Moonlightaholic
Posts: 16429
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:25 pm

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by wpgrace »

GuardianAngel wrote: What are your thoughts on Josef's knowledge of Coraline? Do you think there IS a reason other than wrong place, wrong time as to Beth being chosen? And if so, does Josef know what it is? And is he hiding it from Beth? Or from Mick?
SUCH good questions!

Josef made a point of telling Mick... in The Ringer... that he knew Cora for a hundred years longer than Mick did... so he knows Coraline well, and clearly knows alot more than he's telling Beth... I gotta imagine that at the point where we meet Mick and Josef tho, that Josef has shared pretty much what he knows about Cora with Mick himself. They have clearly had talks about her before. And Josef clearly thinks that Mick is well-rid of Coraline.

However, and this is cheating cause it's in future eps, but I think Josef knows a lot about Coraline's FAMILY that he hasn't shared with Mick... such as the existence of Lance.

And I agree with Alle... the writers were clearly at one point headed in the direction that Cora and Beth share a blood type. But that doesn't mean that JOSEF knows that. He hasn't tasted Beth and they made clear that vamps could NOT tell blood type just from being around a person... they actually (a la Simone) had to taste the blood. So he may truly believe that Beth's abduction was purely luck of the draw...
Image
Banner by redwinter101. I miss you, Beloved.
Awesome avatar by the awesome, clever, and gracious Lilly.

If you read a lot of books you are considered well read. But if you watch a lot of TV, you're not considered well viewed. Lilly Tomlin

Grateful to Alex for Mick, Andy, and McG. :)
User avatar
GuardianAngel
Courtesan
Posts: 2455
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:50 pm
Location: Right here. I think.

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by GuardianAngel »

Beth decides to go to Coraline's Hollywood house. Her VO tells us she wanted to see the party house for herself. That it's one thing to want to know truth, another to confront it head on. Her mind has spent so long trying to protect her, shielding her from what happened, it was the only way she could feel safe. Even now, something inside her is screaming STOP! But she can't. And she's beginning to wonder if she'll ever feel safe again.

Image

She picks the lock and enters, looking through the house which looks to be closed up. She wanders into an office and finds photos of her and Mick

Image

There are 8x10 shots of them from various episodes (AD, Fever, BC, NSTV)

Image

Meanwhile....

Mick goes to Haggans' son's house to warn him that his father knows about him and the wife.

Image

He tells him that his father hired him as a P.I. and he wants to talk to him. He's invited in.

Image

Back at buzzwire, Morgan is listening to the tape that was cleaned up by the sound guy. She listens a couple times because it's still just a bit staticky. But you can hear the son say that they've planned to kill his father but if he finds out he'll kill them first. Uh Oh!

Image

Mick steps into the house and lo and behold, there on the coffee table is all the stolen survelleince.

Image

Mick realizes it was HIM, not the father, who broke into his office. Just then Mrs. Haggans steps in and pops one in Mick's head.

Image

Mick goes down and they say that they can't take the chance of anyone else knowing. They've got to kill Mr. Haggans right away, before he finds out. On the floor, Mick's bleeding profusely.

Image


I really am not a fan of Beth doing the VOs in this episode but I think it was actually important here. I think we needed to know what she was thinking as she went through that house. This part of the show is VERY much about her - understanding what actually happened to her and why.
Image
MoonMarg
Logan's WoW nemesis
Posts: 889
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:39 am

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by MoonMarg »

librarian_7 wrote:One other thing I've wondered...I can accept that Beth did not think she could kill Coraline by staking her. Okay, so she has a paralyzed vamp on her hands. What was she thinking would happen next?

Lucky
I've often thought about this myself but haven't really come up with anything wise. At this point I don't think Beth was thinking all that clearly or that far ahead. I think she just wanted to hurt the "b***h" and to be honest, lashing out with a stake is the obvious way to do that with a vampire. She probably figured Mick would know what to do next!!! It certainly would have made an interesting scene...I could just imagine Mick...flustered would be an understatement.
User avatar
GuardianAngel
Courtesan
Posts: 2455
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:50 pm
Location: Right here. I think.

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by GuardianAngel »

Again, that scene is for a later discussion. We're almost there.
Image
User avatar
GuardianAngel
Courtesan
Posts: 2455
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:50 pm
Location: Right here. I think.

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by GuardianAngel »

Worried about Mick, Morgan heads out to Haggans Jr.'s place.


Image

The door is open but the place is deserted. She knocks and calls Mick's name but there's no anwer. She calls Mick's cell phone.

Image

And the ring comes from below her, down the desk stairs.

Image

She walks down there and peers into the leaves, where the ringing is coming from. Mick sits up and scares her (he does that a lot to the ladies. LOL)

Image

Doesn't he look like a great autumn ornament?

Mick is woozy. He sees that he's bleeding and tells her that they must have hit him from behind (Josef would be proud - ever mindful of protecting the secret).

Morgan wads up her scarf to apply to the wound and says they should get him to a hospital. Mick says no and they proceed up the stairs, Morgan helping him.

Image

Mick assures her that it's just a scalp laceration, they are worse than they look, err, look worse than they are. They are both aware now that Haggans Sr. is the intended victim and Mick wants to get to him before his murdering son and wife.

Back at the party house, Beth finds a circular stairway and follows it down.

Image

At the bottom is every little girl's dream playroom and bedroom.

Image

Beth lets out an "Oh my God." She remembers it.

Image

It is where she was kept after being kidnapped. We see a flashback of a terrified little Beth sitting on the floor beginning to cry as she hears her kidnapper coming down the stairs.

Image

Image

Coraline approaches her, puts keys on a table (apparently the door is kept locked) and talks to the little girl in a sweet voice, telling her she needs to go to bed now. She lifts her, the little girls feet kicking, and carries her to bed.

Beth's VO tells us that this is where Coraline kept her. Alone. Locked in the room waiting to meet Mick. She thinks back again. Coraline is putting Beth to bed and the VO continues. She's getting angry, telling us Coraline wanted to lure him back, to make them a family in her deranged mind.

Image

Coraline talks to the little girl, sweetly, telling her that she needs to sleep because tomorrow's a big day - she is going to meet her new daddy.

Image

The little girl cries, hugging her teddy bear.

Image

Beth sits on the bed, taking it in and spies a small, white, spindle rocking chair.

Image

With determination she grabs it and breaks off a spindle.

Image

She grabs her bag and runs up the stairs.
Image
User avatar
lafluffy
Freelance freshie
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:34 am
Location: Cloud Mick
Contact:

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by lafluffy »

Just happened to see this thread.

What I loved about this ep was Beth's primal rage throughout. She's psychically reliving the trauma of confinement and encounter with Coraline and the events surrounding that. In reliving it there are parts of her that are acting as if she were still that child, a huge motivating factor. Her powerful grown self breaks the spindle of the chair inside the actual prison. And then as that raging child...
lafluffy, Queen of the Damned Fluffies
................................................
........................Image
.......................Fabulous screencap by the ever fabulous lighterthanair.
User avatar
redwinter101
100% Moonlightaholic
Posts: 23759
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:19 am
Location: lost in Moonlight, forever

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by redwinter101 »

I have a question that came up last night during watch and chat (thanks to coco). When Morgan found Mick in Haggans' garden, why didn't Mick vamp out? Having lost all that blood, surely that would have been an appropriate reaction (and farewell to any notion of keeping the secret...)?

Red
Image

Click here for my story index

"Unable are the loved to die, for love is immortality" - Emily Dickinson
User avatar
wpgrace
100% Moonlightaholic
Posts: 16429
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:25 pm

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by wpgrace »

redwinter101 wrote:I have a question that came up last night during watch and chat (thanks to coco). When Morgan found Mick in Haggans' garden, why didn't Mick vamp out? Having lost all that blood, surely that would have been an appropriate reaction (and farewell to any notion of keeping the secret...)?

Red

Well... why did he pass out for so long anyway? It wasn't a silver bullet! And coco's is a good question too...

I will add, just to maintain my shallow credentials, that Shannyn got THE best scenes with Alex... they are always touching each other... sigh.
Image
Banner by redwinter101. I miss you, Beloved.
Awesome avatar by the awesome, clever, and gracious Lilly.

If you read a lot of books you are considered well read. But if you watch a lot of TV, you're not considered well viewed. Lilly Tomlin

Grateful to Alex for Mick, Andy, and McG. :)
User avatar
nutmegger911
Cleaner
Posts: 6233
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Right here - right now

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Post by nutmegger911 »

Total speculation here, but it looked to me like a gunshot wound to the head. I had just assumed it would be as close to losing his head as Mick could get without actually losing his head. Ergo, was okay with longer healing time and associated confusion.

Besides, the worse than it looks comment was fun.
NM911
Image
LIVE WIDE
It ain't canon until they've shot it (and aired it) - I said that.
Trust the Muse. - Catmoon
The system isn't broken, it's fixed. - Billo
Post Reply

Return to “Episode Discussion”