4. Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

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Shadow
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by Shadow »

I really like Josef's take on Mick's mortality, as, simply, dying .... I have the feeling he looks on all humans as having such a fatal illness, but with Mick's time as a human being so short, it really would seem terminal. It's nice to think of Josef being the one to push them together like that -- and nice to see him dressing Beth down for the way she'd been treating Mick! As ever, your Josef is absolutely perfect.
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by francis »

Ah, this is the missing scene of episode 12 and a half, right? I can so see this, and it would have been soooo good. I always wondered what Josef thought of Mick's foray into mortality, and how he perceived the desaster of Beth's misplaced grief and Coraline's "gift" to Mick as a bystander. You get both of them so right here, both fueled by anger and purpose and their friendship to Mick and their own desires and hopes. Both trying to save face, both convinced that they know Mick better, and are doing the right thing. But Beth realizes how she got it wrong, and starts to change. And that's totally Beth, too, cause when she's set on something, she's totally into it. That's what made her behaviour in that last 4 episodes so grating to me.
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by librarian_7 »

Spot on, Red, just spot on. I can so easily see this scene having happened...perhaps it had to happen. And Josef the puppet-master, making sure Beth understands what she did. And what she must to do to make it right.

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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by cassysj »

This story is amazing and absolutely something Josef would do. I was furious with Beth for asking Mick to change Josh. As a human under stress I could understand it but only if she wanted to be with Josh forever and that's not where her head was at.

Josef is not one to pull punches and I like how he explained that to Mick it was rape and murder and that was what she was asking him to do.

I am loving this series and this is my favorite thus far.
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by Albra »

Perfect … everything on its proper place … another blank filled …
And above all - this is exactly how I’ve always imagined Josef’s place, Josef’s importance, in Mick’s life – he is devoted friend, older brother, almost parent …
He always has Mick’s good in mind and he could do everything for him …

Thank you, Red
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by redwinter101 »

Your reply really got me thinking, dsr. :chin:
darkstarrising wrote:
"You know it but do you understand it?" Josef interrupted, one eyebrow raised in query. "I wish he'd found his reasons… elsewhere,"


With him. With Josef. Instead, Mick has squandered his love on an unappreciative human.

As different as they are, Beth and Josef share one thing in common - love for Mick.

In the end, Josef succeeds in making Beth understand what she's done, setting her on a course to strengthen her relationship with Mick. One has to wonder, though, just how much stepping aside cost him.
"Well I think he's a fool but he's my friend so I put up with it." Another swig smoothed his pained frown.
But he does
Because devotion has no boundaries.
My intention was that Josef was wishing Mick would simply keep to his own kind and away from humans (especially Beth, when she seems to have treated him so harshly) - I hadn't thought of it in terms of Josef keeping Mick to himself. I love it when the interpretation of a story is different but equally credible and this really set me thinking more about Josef's motivations.

I also hadn't intended for the "devotion has no boundaries" line to apply to Josef - and I think devotion might be too strong a word for how he feels about Mick. Maybe not too strong - but too romantic. I don't know.

Fascinating.

Thank you so much.

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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by redwinter101 »

Grace, :giggle: and :smooch:

Shadow, thank you! Josef is a challenge (I'm much more comfortable with Mick. So to speak. :whistle: ). But he is fabulous fun to write.

francis, aw :comfort: I'm sorry you're unwell - hope you feel better soon. I don't write many "missing scenes" but, like you, I found so many things unsettling about the final four that this one felt right.

Lucky, can you here me squee?? I originally had a line in this describing Josef as the puppet-master but I took it out, hoping that the image would be conveyed clearly without having to spell it out. :hyper2:

cassysj, thank you so much. I'm especially happy that you're enjoying this as a series, because it's not the usual type of series I write. :flowers:

Albra, thank you. :rose: That's definitely how I see Josef. Although I always think there's a fascinating conflict where his own interests clash with Mick's - but here, when it is his friend's wellbeing at stake, he steps forward.

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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by darkstarrising »

redwinter101 wrote:Your reply really got me thinking, dsr. :chin:


My intention was that Josef was wishing Mick would simply keep to his own kind and away from humans (especially Beth, when she seems to have treated him so harshly) - I hadn't thought of it in terms of Josef keeping Mick to himself. I love it when the interpretation of a story is different but equally credible and this really set me thinking more about Josef's motivations.

I also hadn't intended for the "devotion has no boundaries" line to apply to Josef - and I think devotion might be too strong a word for how he feels about Mick. Maybe not too strong - but too romantic. I don't know.

Fascinating.

Thank you so much.

Red
thanks, Red :hug: ....my thinking had been that Josef wanted to keep Mick to himself, not so much in a romantic relationship, but to keep Beth from taking Mick away from him, from disturbing the balance that Mick provides in his life. For Josef, Mick is the closest thing to a trusted friend that he'll ever have and he treasures that friend / brother relationship. With Beth in the picture, Mick's attention would be split now. Worse, Mick might get so comfortable with his new human condition, that he might endeavor to make it permanent, ultimately leaving Josef alone.

I have two nephews, brothers who were extremely close growing up, even though they were very different. A few years back, the younger one announced his engagement and his brother felt betrayed. Some woman was coming between them! At the end of the wedding, the older brother left and wouldn't attend the reception. Eventually, he got over it and now, they're both happily married and the older one just became a father for the first time. One was stuck in time, wanting the friendship he had with his brother to continue undisturbed, while the other was capable of accepting change. Perhaps this colored my interpretation of your work.
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by redwinter101 »

That's a wonderful description - and I agree about Josef's fears of being left alone.

I wonder if that would happen? I tend to think that Mick would always have a place for Josef, no matter what developed between him and Beth, but I guess you never know until it happens - hence Josef's fears. After 400 years, maybe he's not as good at coping with change as he'd like to think.

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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by allegrita »

Red, I love this story. :hearts: Thank you, thank you, for giving Beth the kick-start she so obviously needed. You know me... I'm gonna look at the Beth side of it. Because this story is very much about Beth, too.

Beth is nearly as damaged as Mick, in her way, but what she has that he lacks, is an unquenchable spirit for getting on with things. She's a doer, not a brooder--and although Josef doesn't know her well, I think he recognizes that spirit in her, and he knows that she's got to be the one to break through the stalemate with Mick.

Josef doesn't know how much Mick has left OUT of his explanations to Beth... although I suspect that he's getting the picture. So in this instance, I honestly see Josef as putting himself in the position of mentor to Beth. And he flavors that mentoring with a healthy dose of tough love, partly out of anger at her for her thoughtless unkindness to his best friend. But partly out of respect, too.

Added to that, of course, is Josef's knowledge that Mick's chance at this mortal life is fleeting--a tiny slice of sunlight in a moonlit existence. He hits Beth with some huge home truths here, because he knows that (a) she can take it, and (b) Mick needs her much more than he'll admit. Josef knows that Mick needs Beth to share this human time with him, because Josef simply can't. He's on the wrong side of the clock.

So, knowing she can take it, Josef handles Beth very roughly here (in his typical smooth-seeming, polished way). He beats her up. He holds her eyes open and forces her to look at things she's suspected, but been afraid to acknowledge. Things that Mick can't say, but that she absolutely needs to know. Because as mad as Josef is at Beth for her insensitivity, he knows that she made most of her mistakes out of ignorance. And since Josef realizes that she's gonna be around, he decides that she needs to learn, and fast.

Josef's doing to Beth what he won't allow himself to do to Mick, because he senses that Beth's a hell of a lot tougher emotionally than Mick is. (Remember how gentle Josef is with Mick later on? Almost tender... I love that little scene in his office, where he encourages Mick to make the most of his humanity, and tell Beth how he feels.)

So... at the end of that brutal meeting, Beth is humiliated, and angry, and bruised--but she gets the message. And she is so brave--I'm so proud of her, because that phone call must have been so hard to make. :rose:

Anthony would be so proud of you for this, honey. :hug:
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by redwinter101 »

Thanks, alle. :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

I agree about Josef's motivations - and his view of both Beth and Mick at this stage.
allegrita wrote:(Remember how gentle Josef is with Mick later on? Almost tender... I love that little scene in his office, where he encourages Mick to make the most of his humanity, and tell Beth how he feels.)
This was intended as a pre-cursor to that conversation. At one point I had Josef say, "One down, one to go", but I took it out as I couldn't make it work in the context.

I think Beth would have been encouraged by the conversation she and Mick had at Mick's loft (about Josh's intention to propose) because Mick was so kind to her (and then of course Coraline showed up to chuck a spanner in the works, but that's another story) but ITA it was still brave both to make that phone call AND to take such initiative on the beach with Mick.

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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by coco »

I'm a big fan of fill in the blank stories and this is one of the best. This is excellent, Red. :clapping:

While FtP may not be everyone's favourite episode (even I know it had faults) it is actually a real highlight for me. I watch with a huge smile on my face every single time and what I love about this story is that you've filled in some really crucial moments for me and certain scenes work better for me now because I see the bigger picture. :flowers:

You've written Josef perfectly. The tough love he delivers to Beth is spot on. I love her to bits but she can be stubborn and doesn't always see things the way she should when it comes to Mick and I love that you have Josef getting through to her in this way and because she is the character I love so much she survives it too and makes steps to put things right with Mick. :biggrin:

Fabulous. :twothumbs:
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by redwinter101 »

Thanks, coco. I know there were loads of reasons why FtP ended up with some of the flaws it did - but I still love it too. :)

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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by Luxe de Luxe »

How do you do it? You manage to convey complexity even in this simple scenario. I really enjoyed the way you portrayed Josef's intervention here - direct but oblique at the same time. Beth and we have to work for our understanding of the meaning behind his invitation. And as a reader I really appreciate that quality in your work.

Your characters are so fully rounded in this small gem. Beth's no pushover, despite being a little intimidated; Josef is his enigmatic best. And Mick, off camera Mick, is portrayed beautifully in the 'negative space' of the fic as a loving, decent, honourable man. Yet another beautiful piece. Thanks, Red.
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Re: Terce (nine a.m.) - PG

Post by redwinter101 »

Thanks so much, Luxe. That might be one of the nicest, most complimentary comments I've ever had - and I'm totally chuffed. :biggrin: Like everyone writing ML fic, I'm blessed with having a set of characters who have already established that delightful complexity - all I have to do is try not to screw it up.
Luxe de Luxe wrote:And Mick, off camera Mick, is portrayed beautifully in the 'negative space' of the fic as a loving, decent, honourable man.
Oh that made me SO happy - because that's Mick. That's how I see him and (for me) he is the centre of everything, even when he isn't physically present.

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

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