Three Rivers - news, links, discussion - part 10 *SPOILERS*

[redwinter101]

Mmmm, well, I enjoyed the ongoing story with Kuol. It's nice to see a recurring story that doesn't get fixed within one hour. The Miranda/Sophia thing annoyed me. I found it silly that after all this time, one trite saying from a patient's relative convinces Sophia to spill her long-held secret. I liked Miranda's reaction though. You would be furious about everyone else knowing just as much as about feeling abandoned.

And as for the final scene with Lisa and Andy, oh Lord, I just thought it was horribly trite. Horribly. And I like Lisa but the story about her sister, the little twisted legs, the bloodied shoes, well, just play the violins.

Red

[allegrita]

Yep... I'm with Red on all counts, especially the sappy Lisa-Andy scene. (Besides, watching him hug a blonde with a ponytail brought back memories of a MUCH better hug--but I digress.) Oh, and I thought Dr. Lee and his interesting agreement with the VAD rep was well done, and an interesting commentary on the kinds of things that go on behind the scenes to get stuff done in the arcane world of the American health care system.

About the mixed-up parents and Sophia's (rehashed from GA and poorly written to boot) revelation to Miranda, my husband kept yelling, "No, don't tell the daughter about her real dad! No, don't tell Miranda that you had an affair with her dad!!" But did they listen? No, they did not.

[wpgrace]

Mmmm, well, I enjoyed the ongoing story with Kuol. It's nice to see a recurring story that doesn't get fixed within one hour. The Miranda/Sophia thing annoyed me. I found it silly that after all this time, one trite saying from a patient's relative convinces Sophia to spill her long-held secret. I liked Miranda's reaction though. You would be furious about everyone else knowing just as much as about feeling abandoned.

And as for the final scene with Lisa and Andy, oh Lord, I just thought it was horribly trite. Horribly. And I like Lisa but the story about her sister, the little twisted legs, the bloodied shoes, well, just play the violins.

Red

... or the piano. They like to play the piano in the "emotional" scenes...

[Josefismysire]

Well since I've never watched more than 10 minutes of GA it was all new to me. That can only be a good thing. I also don't dislike Lisa and tonight I could actually see them going somewhere. in the future.

I really like Lisa..have from the start and think that she and Andy look cute together. I'd like to see more of that develop, myself...

Maybe I just like seeing Alex (and his characters) with blonde love interests..(could it be something to do with the fact that I'm blonde and I can live vicariously?? )

[HotMicks]

Sorry, this will be a longer post (making up for not having time to comment last week ).

I hate to say it, but I really don't think this show is gonna make it - not unless they get someone in there with a good critical eye. Every week I try, but every week I get done watching and think how I wouldn't watch another episode if Alex wasn't in this show. It has good moments, many of which you've called out here (Dr. Lee's dinner scene), but overall it's just... boring. What drama there is is overwrought and, as you said Grace, trite, and the characters are pretty much stereotypes (insert gymnast here, innocent boy there). I could take or leave most of the guest characters and their stories. As Lucky and Grace said, the writing is pedantic.

Take for example this week, this is the kind of stuff that comes off as amateurish to me: When the girl fell off the parallel bars, her parents are the first to reach her and the dad yells, "Is there a medic?" (or something like that). Now, in a REAL gymnastics meet, the coach would be the first to reach the girl (because the coaches are standing right off to the side, unlike the parents who are up in the stands) and you can bet the doctor on duty would be right there in a flash - maybe even beating the coach to the girl. I don't believe they even had a "coach" in this scene at all? When this kind of stuff happens (a scene doesn't ring true), it just jars me right out of the "fiction" and then I'm not engrossed in the story anymore - I've now put my "TV critic" hat on and it sort of ruins the episode for me. I have a hard time getting back into it. And I agree - did they really have to pile on the whole paternity storyline? It didn't make it any more interesting.

And I am REALLY getting tired of too many storylines per episode. The "extra" story isn't necessary. In the first episode, I thought they did it just to show that the hospital has other stuff besides transplants (an ER, "regular" operations, etc.). Now it's just an annoying tangent every week. I can't figure out why they continue it... except as an excuse to have Lisa there (if so, why didn't they just put her on the transplant team?).

I think the problem in terms of the storytelling is that they have some sort of checklist of, okay: 1) We must do a live donor story, 2) We need to show that, even if you have a family, it's a good thing to be a liver donor if you can (get over your fears)... I honestly do think it's admirable what they're trying to do, I just wish they'd throw better talent at it. ER would have hit a home run with some of these situations. That was a show that knew how to do drama (okay, over-the-top drama toward the end, but hey, there were many good years). Why can't they get some of their (ER's) better writers? I do think Barbee is the heart of this show. She seems want to do "good, uplifting" TV, rather than the sleaze and slash stuff on every other channel. I like that. I want some TV that shows the basic decency and humanity we're capable of. I just think she needs adult supervision. Someone who can say, "You know, that's a little toooo sappy - pull it back a bit and you've got a homerun." I thought that's what the "network overseers" were there for (at least they seemed to meddle a lot in Moonlight, from what we've heard).

Now for the hardest thing to say... I think Alex is getting more comfortable each episode, but this is really the first role I've ever watched him in where I actually "see" him acting sometimes. I do think he is quite intimidated about playing this character (maybe more so than any other he's done). I think he has sooo much respect for the real-life doc, that he's almost trying too hard sometimes. Unlike Mick, where from the first instant he immersed me in the fictional world of Moonlight, there are moments in 3R when his gestures or expressions or dialogue don't seem natural to him. There was a "kind look" in this one (can't remember exactly the scene) that felt awkward to me and again jarred me out of the fictional construct. And Alle, oh my, you hit the nail on the head about the hug at the end. It was about as awkward as that kiss between Beth and Josh - where the awkwardness seemed to be between the actors, more so than the characters.

Although, I do think I like this Lisa character, or rather, I think she's sweet and I like her good heart, but again, they've left most of these characters in the one-dimensional realm. And really, what CAN you do with a script as tortured as that little sister storyline. It's again where they take it a step too far into cotton candy land (toooooo sweet - sickeningly sweet). If they'd have left it at the scene of her cleaning the shoes (minus the testy moment with Alex needed to set up the little sister story later), it would have been fine. It did not need ALL that backstory of the little sister - it stood on its own just fine as a very compassionate and thoughtful gesture by Lisa toward the mother.

Part of what I don't understand is that Barbee did a good job with characterization on Jericho, I thought. There were some very compelling, distinctive and strong characterizations on that show (the first mayor and his wife and their 'bad boy' son and even the a**hole second mayor). They don't seem to be writing those "telling moments" on this one, though. Instead, they are sometimes "cliche moments" like the one this week between Alfre and Kate. I keep hoping they will give these characters little moments that show us how they are unique individuals. The closest they have gotten to this with Andy, I thought, was how he related to the teenage boy in the other episode (the one who got the heart). It was the scene in the middle with the mp3 player - where he looks down at him on the couch and, at least how I interpreted Alex's look, sees himself as a teenager in this kid's attitude. However, I thought the scene at the end of that episode, on the roof, was a bit tortured and preachy.

Anyway, I'm still hanging in there, taking the improvements as we get them and hoping someone with a strong hand steps in and tells Barbee the truth about the show's weaknesses. I do think there is a very good show in there somewhere. They have characters they can work with and really outstanding actors. I am very impressed with Katherine Moennig and Daniel Henney - at least if nothing else, I'm glad 3R introduced me to their work as I will now follow other projects they do. And Alfre Woodard is always gold in my book - I think she's a regal actress - high class, high quality. Like I said, they just need a good critic to give the epi's a once over and provide some honest feedback before they start shooting them - and also better writers, IMHO.

Oh, and btw, today's Google Sesame Street image is THE COUNT! Moonlight coincidence? I think not.
And Susie, Gavin Rossdale? You've got to be kidding me... I'm looking over my shoulder for Rod Serling right now!

[nayp]

.........................

[allegrita]

I found myself nodding at every point you made, HotMicks. Especially your wish that someone would give Carol Barbee the hard truth. She's a good-hearted person. She's trying to do a difficult thing, a worthwhile thing. But the woman doesn't seem to have a subtle bone in her entire body.

[wpgrace]

Oh come on HM... stop holding back and tell us what you really think, honey!

Actually that was a lovely and thoughtful post ... I agree with much of it... especially with the tendency to over-write the melodrama (piano moments ) and the blind insistence (I suppose Barbee's) upon that "extra" story line in each ep, just taking more screen time from the doctors... And I doubt I would've watched it a second time, or frankly even the first time, had Alex not been in it.

I think I like Alex's performance more than you do, I think he appears pretty natural as Andy, who is a quiet kinda guy it seems, but I had a surgeon once with a very similar personality. He even held my hand when I woke up from surgery and his whole voice would change from how he talked to the nurse or my husband, and then how he talked to me. He was sweet to all, but really solicitous of me and I wasn't even dying. . Tho he did NOT look like Alex, darnit.

Plus, I just love, LOVE, the way Andy uses the hand sanitizer every time he goes into a patient's room. I dunno why I love that so much but I LOVE THAT!

[HotMicks]

^ ha, ha ... oKAAAAYYY then... (no, I'll spare ya).

And I do think he's getting more into character each week... it's just weird for me because I've never "noticed" him acting (unless I was watching a repeat specifically for that). And I had a surgeon like that once too... my family doctor referred me to him specifically because of his bedside manner ('cause I was terrified... even though it was band-aid type surgery ).

And what, Grace likes something involving Alex's hands? Really? Now that IS earth-shattering!

And thanks everyone for realizing that this is mostly just 'cause the is what I love about having a forum - so we can dissect every little detail, what we like and don't like, and so I feel I must contribute my own hot air to the place. It does not mean I don't appreciate Alex's incredible talent, it just means like every other human being on earth, he's not perfect. OMG, did I just say that? Okay, NOW you have my permission to slap me... silly.

[allegrita]

Honey, you're already silly. That's why we love you so much.

[wpgrace]

Yet you said you were watching JUST for him, HM. I would imagine he would appreciate that...

[wpgrace]

Soooooooooooo... is this ep not up on ITUnes yet, for some scary reason, or am I just technically incompetent again?

[starbucksjunkie]

HM,

Truth be told, I agree with absolutely everything you've said. Everything. And I, too keep comparing this show with ER, which is the gold standard of medical shows and probably always will be (I don't watch GA).

Part of what made ER so great is that the hard drama moments were handled so very well, almost never over the top (I'm talking about the early years here), and if there was serious hanky drama, it was balanced with offbeat hospital humor (like sticking a flower in a particularly difficult patient's rear while he thinks it's a thermometer-just to spite him--and leaving the curtains open so everyone can see). We need more of that to counterbalance the dun-dun-dun moments here. And yes, someone should tell Carol Barbee.

[Lilly]

Soooooooooooo... is this ep not up on ITUnes yet, for some scary reason, or am I just technically incompetent again?

grace, I just checked and was able to find it -- Link

[darkstarrising]

Having never watched either ER or GA, I've got nothing to compare to....but perhaps in search of a way to gain viewers, the writers are trying to emulate aspects of both shows they think successful and are coming up short.

Carol Barbee has good intentions, but this is a show about people and it can't be a 40 minute PSA for organ donation (which is what the first episode seemed to be).

Episodes 2-5 seemed to get a better feel, a better pace and we learned a bit about each of the main characters, except Ryan, who still seems to be either poorly cast or just an odd character in this mix. Each week, the new episodes seemed to get just a little bit better until...

Episode 6. The donor and patient stories were good and for once, nobody died. The whole subplot with Dr. Jordan and Miranda's father just seems forced. Will it create tension between the two? Yes. But the tension that was created in episode 5 with Dr. Lee (do I have to take this?) and Dr. Jordan (learn to love the unloveable) was ever so much more creative.

Loved that Dr. Lee got to play the hero for a change (Andy can't do everything himself).

Dr. Reed's performance was so-so, but her roof-top confession to Andy seemed devoid of any real emotion.

As for Andy, I find it frustrating that the writers have dropped hints about his past, but as yet that's all they are. Somehow, Idon't think we've seen the last of Rena (I hope - I really like her), but she's probably going to re-appear at an 'awkward' moment in Andy's life.

It will be interesting to see how heavily CBS hypes the upcoming episode with Mandy Patinkin this week. Hopefully, a lot and hopefully a few fans of Mandy's will tune in.