Request for Member Discussion: What is too invasive?

[wpgrace]

Couple of thoughts...

I have been modded too... not for posting pics, as I don't do. But for something I wrote. I know this will shock one and all. And yeah, it makes you feel like ... whoops! BUT, we've almost all been modded, including the mods. So Rhonda... . NO one thinks a thing about it or thinks anything negative about you.

Like you said, sometimes you post something and don't quite know how it resonates until it's up there. None of us INTEND to offend... most of the time...

BUT, as I've said before, if we're gonna err, this is a safe place to err, for us and for Alex. This is a respectful place. Our convos are quite respectful to our actors. We don't say some of the awful, intrusive, insulting stuff I've seen in some places. If, on sober second thought (like once the Alex high wears off a bit) the mods, or ourselves, feel a comment or a pic maybe ought not be here, it can be quietly removed. But for most convos here, there is generally no harm no foul.

Finally I do agree Saxon oughta be let be. Not that darling child's fault he got the Greek god for a daddy. I wish him and Daddy happy.

[darkstarrising]

Modding is a very hard job and I didn't want to imply that it wasn't. I dashed something off at work and I probably should have waited till later. You do create a wonderful playground for us to kick around in.

And it is always difficult to say to anyone that they aren't quite following the rules. It is such a hard job that I don't want to do anything that makes you mod me. I feel terrible if I do something that puts you in that position. In my situation, the modding was done as kindly as possible but I still felt bad that I had broken the rules without knowing it.

And that's the key - how does an individual know they are breaking the rules when posting pictures/videos they've found but don't know all the circumstances around the postings? Is there a way to tell before having to mod someone? What is "obvious" to some people may not be obvious to others. The longer the conversation goes on the more confused I get. I guess I'm on that fence with others. (Hopefully the fence doesn't have those pointy ends because that would hurt. )

What grace said and if you have any doubts, best thing to do is PM a mod.

[Fleur de Lisa]

Grace---us modded? Never. Not once were we told that we were off-topic.
More like a hundred times, hence the random thread bearing our names!

Rhonda--honestly, if you get modded for posting a pic, it's only bc the mods don't think it belongs on this particular site--whether its copyrighted or watermarked or a host of other words that i really don't know the meaning of. That is probably the most mildest form of modding there is!

And to the rest of you? About a zillion of these:

I just caught up on this thread and good God are you all a bunch of intelligent, insightful eloquent women. Seriously. If a tenth of all the fans out there took their cues from you all, celebrityhood would be a much nicer place for our fave actors.

[Lilly]

Maybe one reason this board is such a wonderful, civil and welcoming place for us is because they do their jobs so well!

Actually, the reason this board is such a wonderful, civil place is -- because of our thoughtful, considerate, and genuinely kind members, we so rarely have to do the hard part of our jobs at all.

The tricky thing is that, as we endeavor not to have TOO many rules (lest we start to seem like some sort of totalitarian state), there are going to be circumstances that just aren't expressly covered in the guidelines. We really try to take each instance on its own merit, and to be fair and consistent when we do find that we need to step in. I truly think the kind of discussion we're having here is going to be invaluable to setting the tone as we move forward. And it's a lovely testament to our members that we're able to have it.


ETA: Fleur just snuck her post in ahead of me. Just --

[allegrita]

What wonderful people you all are.

And a huuuuge for librarian_7, Lilly, and PNWgal, the most freakin' awesome mods anybody could wish for.

[jen]

ITA.

'Nuff said. Everybody has already said it better.

[HotMicks]

Y'all have made excellent points, many I agree with — so I'll keep it short:

1) I generally go by the rule that anything that feels icky in my gut means it doesn't align with my moral compass.
2) Civilization hopefully saves us from our worst (but entirely human) instincts ... this includes whatever enjoyment I might get from seeing AOL go about his life. Although I might enjoy it, it's an intrusion and therefore not something I should feel I have a right to see, even if he doesn't mind. I just want to try to leave him alone in his personal life as much as possible.
3) Really, the only pictures I feel I'm entitled to see due to Alex choosing his particular profession are the ones from the TV show/movie, any photo shoots and any public events such as awards, movie premieres, etc. Beyond that, the slope gets too slippery too quickly (for my liking).
4) The kid is off limits until he grows up and decides whether he wants to be a "celebrity" in his own right. This includes all candid shots, even on set. There are just too many scary, obsessed people in the world today.

And finally,

I just caught up on this thread and good God are you all a bunch of intelligent, insightful eloquent women. Seriously. If a tenth of all the fans out there took their cues from you all, celebrityhood would be a much nicer place for our fave actors.

Once again, Fleur said it best!

ETA: One final, minor point... maybe because I experienced each and every single "drought" since the writers' strike, and some of 'em were excruciating (I still remember Grace's wailing and moaning during the "talent deal" months ), I feel almost overwhelmed by the amount of Alex pics we get these days. So I don't even really feel a need to see the personal pics. We get plenty o' gorgeous without 'em.

[wpgrace]

WAILING AND MOANING???????? Moi?????

But yeeeeeeeeeeesssssss... so much fabulous Alexness these days...

Tho have I mentioned his People need to get him a clothing endorsement deal and GET DUDE ON A FREAKIN TALK SHOW?

But wailing and moaning?

[jmc]

Case in point: Christian Bale's minutes-long rant during the filming of Terminator. It not only made me think less of him as a person, it totally ruined my enjoyment of him as an actor. One of my favorite movies is Reign of Fire, but I can't watch it now without thinking, "wow, Christian Bale is a total jerkface". I don't want anyone to ever feel that way about Alex.

That vid floating around of Alex with Dusty...while it's totally adorable, it was still kind of intrusive. Even if the viewer didn't know it was Saxon, it's still obvious there was someone's kid in that vid - shouldn't matter if it was Alex's kid, or the kid of the guy who stocks the food table. Anyone's kid should be off-limits. Plus, it was kinda obvious the person shooting the vid was trying really hard to hide the fact they were filming, which says to me the person KNEW they shouldn't be filming. I would bet that would be a fireable offense if that vid came from a crew member.

Let me tell you about fireable offenses. My nephew is working on one of those "Wives" shows right now. He said the confidentiality paperwork that everyone had to sign is the most comprehensive he's ever seen. They'd outlaw looking at the 'talent' if the crew could work in blindfolds and one of the producers is probably researching a cost-effective way to prevent the crew from breathing the same air.

Totally off-topic, he's worked on a couple of movies with Christian Bale and totally respects him. He was furious when the melt-down vid came out. I mentioned the vid to him and got an earful.

[Fleur de Lisa]

Jmc---very interesting take on things from someone in the business. I can only imagine the stuff your nephew has seen and had to put up with regarding "the talent" And I use that term loosely, bc really? The Housewives? That right there shows you what's wrong with the cult of celebrityhood, when there are famous people made every day who have no discernible skill--- ie:singing, dancing acting--other than arguing with others and airing their dirty laundry.

As to the Christian Bale issue---I also was disgusted by his behavior and now think less of him. However, who among us hasn't had a moment that we wish we could rewind? A time when we got way more upset than the situation warranted? Granted, I've 'heard' that CB has had anger issues in the past. Then again, how do I know this to be true when i don't personally know the guy? Yep, from the entertainment media.

This all just kinda makes my head hurt. Just when you think you've got a side to stand on, you find yourself firmly back on that fence!

[PNWgal]

And there's exactly my point, jmc (and thank you for the insight - I always like learning something new about the "industry"). Your nephew's worked with Christian Bale - while he may not be his drinking buddy, he's seen a side of him that fans don't, but there's still that little niggling negativity, at least for me, because of his outburst. Our perceptions and views on people are based on what we see and hear. Your nephew says, "Christian Bale is a fine actor and a hard worker", and I'll nod and agree, but I'll also be thinking, "Christian Bale's outburst caught on vid. Galactic douchebag". That few minutes has colored my perceptions of Bale as an actor forever.

That image is always in my mind, and that's what I mean when I say not all BTS scenes stuff is good, positive or should be put out there for the world to see.

[cassysj]

As to the Christian Bale issue---I also was disgusted by his behavior and now think less of him. However, who among us hasn't had a moment that we wish we could rewind? A time when we got way more upset than the situation warranted? Granted, I've 'heard' that CB has had anger issues in the past. Then again, how do I know this to be true when i don't personally know the guy? Yep, from the entertainment media.

This all just kinda makes my head hurt. Just when you think you've got a side to stand on, you find yourself firmly back on that fence!

It is true it does get hard to know where to stand with all the media news. I too was an enormous fan of Christian Bale and like PNW loved Reign of Fire. The media has colored my perception of him. A number of years ago Russell Crowe had an incident at the Mercer Hotel. I worked across the street from it at the time. While I think Russell Crowe's behavior was inappropriate I'm not sure that the hotel employee wasn't suing just to win the lottery. I mean if I had acted like that I would have been arrested or at the very least immediately expelled from the hotel.

We don't really know the celebrities that we follow. I've met any number of celebrities and some of them multiple times at different events. Many have been very courteous, some have been rude, drunk or just having a bad day. We all have bad days when our behavior is not steller. I don't have to worry about my bad behavior showing up on TMZ. Years ago I met an actor (Not a Moonlight actor and he will remain nameless) at an event where I was horrified by the behavior of the fans. The event was in Toronto and this was before 9/11. He was supposed to have his Q&A early afternoon then a photo session. He missed his plane from Los Angeles because he was shooting the TV show until 3A . He took a later flight in and appeared on stage at 10P for his Q&A. The photographer was gone but he lived up to his commitment. He explained the reason he missed his flight was he drove to LAX and realized he left his passport at home. People got very nasty and said. "If you're a U.S. Citizen you just need your license (which wasn't true, you could sometimes get away with that at the driving border patrols but if you didn't have a passport you needed your birth certificate. I don't carry a copy in my wallet so I doubt he did.

People were hostile that he showed up so late and wasn't going to be there the next day for photographs. I understand being disappointed but he didn't have to show up at all and he was losing his cut of the photo money too. He signed autographs at midnight. When I got my picture signed I thanked him for coming. He was so appreciative I think I may have been the only person who said that to him.

[allegrita]

Really interesting viewpoints! And Carol, that con story just makes me cringe on behalf of fans everywhere.

[Fleur de Lisa]

Csrol--Wow. Where has basic decency gone? That actor practically killed himself to get to this event and this is how his so-called fans treated him? I think that is the crux of the problem on both sides, for fans and paps who snap shots they shouldn't: basic decency and morals. However, money clouds the issue as far as some of the paps are concerned.

I agree with those of you disgusted by Christian Bale's loose cannon behavior. I lost respect for him. I watched him in the Fighter last year, in which he was phenomenal, but I couldn't help but think of what he'd done.

However, I keep wondering about the intrusive nature of him being taped having that outburst. Yes, he was a douchebag of epic proportions, as was Alec Baldwin when he was recorded calling his daughter a pig, as was Russell Crowe throwing the telephone or whatever it was. But man, I can kinda feel some of their pain. Imagine being hounded 24/7 and then you just have enough. No excuse for that behavior, but yet, I can kind of see how it happens.


It should be down to a few simple questions for paps: Does taking this picture make me feel icky, does knowing it will be released for all to see make me feel uncomfortable? When you lose that moral compass and sense of decency, thats when things get dicey.

I guarantee you there are some really great entertainment journalists and photogs out there who people like Alex and other actors would bend over backwards to accommodate rather than the scummy ones who are out for nothing but crap that will put $$$ in their pockets.

I think what Alex should do the next time someone snaps an unwanted photo of him living his normal life (and this is advice for any celeb): stick your finger up your nose. Do that every single time and I bet that the paps will tire of you! It's like the celeb version of a flash mob or a sit-in!!

I say this in jest. Kinda

[wpgrace]

I do think that Alex, Christian, Alec, and all must know what comes with the territory. There is good and bad. And to me, our Alex has handled his lot with great grace. I think he's grateful for the good and sanguine about the bad.

But i think we are focussing too much on photos, if fans behaving badly is our concern. As Carol's story shows. It isn't just pictures that bring out the a$$hole in fans. Alex's most vicious "fanemies" are women who blame him for the demise of ML based on rumors started by a proven liar and thief, who blame him for no ML movie based on more similar types of rumors and in SPITE of Alex's own public support of a movie, and who blame him for abandonning them by ending his MS blog (in the face of some truly gross posts by those fans, btw) and moving off the mainland to where they now cannot stalk him.

These warped women go out of their way to post their venom all over the 'net and in letters to CBS.

So whether there are intrusive photos or embarrassing videos, these actors are under all kinds of public opinion duress. We live in a rude world. TBH, the supermarket photos bother ME far less than these acts of hate and retribution.

And CB's vid has not hurt his career. Hollywood knows about this shite. It is more shocking to us than to them.